Doug Mason

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Posts by Doug Mason

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  24

  The Watchtower's method to show that it was appointed in 1919 CE

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please note that when you tell me of the corrections i need to make that this is a simplfied, minimalist presentation dealing with the society's appointment in 1919.. it is available as a powerpoint show: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.ppsx .

  and as a pdf: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.pdf.

  doug.

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  Doug Mason

  Hi Cyberguy,

  Yes they do present some confusing positions as the result of the GB taking over exclusive right to the FDS removing designation from the (earthly?) 144,000.

  It would help if we were able to draw a picture that illustrates their situation. Perhaps another picture that illustrates the slave parable. And another that links the progression of the series of parables. It's not as if Matt 24-25 is a literal historical record; it is a collection of stories that have been put togther in one place, possibly for the purpose of preaching to the early Church. Matthew's gospel was written about 80 CE, some 50 years after Jesus had been executed. It results from oral and possibly written traditions and was intended for the Jewish community of the Church (Ebionites??).
  

  I wonder whether each "new" Watchtower idea results from the ideas brought in by a new member of the GB but he was unable to express previously.

  Doug
  
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  24

  The Watchtower's method to show that it was appointed in 1919 CE

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please note that when you tell me of the corrections i need to make that this is a simplfied, minimalist presentation dealing with the society's appointment in 1919.. it is available as a powerpoint show: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.ppsx .

  and as a pdf: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.pdf.

  doug.

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  Doug Mason

  snowbird,

  It works like this - the Watchtower starts out with the conclusion they want to arrive at. When you look at a typical paragraph in a Watchtower magazine, the para contains the argument and then a Scriptural reference is appended as a supposed support. This is a backward way of reasoning; it is termed eisegesis, which says that a meaning is read into a text of Scripture. They are looking for "support" of their position.
  

  Instead of dong this, we need to extract the meaning. The proper way to understand any Scripture is to recognise that they are human creations, with each written at a particular point in time and with its own immediate context. None of them was writing to us or for us. In each case, the writers intended to influence their own immediate community.
  

  Therefore, to understand what any of them was saying, we need to know the full context, not only literature structures, chiasms, and such, but equally importantly, we need to know the contemporary context of the writers, the editors (redactors), such as their secular and religious politics, geography, idiomatic expressions, and so on.

  Let me give you just two examples: (1) Much of the Hebrew Scriptures [religious propaganda by one section of the community] was formed during and as a result of the neo-Babyonian captivity/exile - the so-called Deuteronomic History, (2) Although Isaiah lived in the 8th century BCE, from chapter 40 on of the document that bears his name was written 200 years later, again during that captivity period.

  Knowing these contexts helps us understand the "what", "why", and so on.

  The Watchtower Society hides the Bible from its followers as completely as did the Church of the Middle Ages.

  Doug
  
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  24

  The Watchtower's method to show that it was appointed in 1919 CE

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please note that when you tell me of the corrections i need to make that this is a simplfied, minimalist presentation dealing with the society's appointment in 1919.. it is available as a powerpoint show: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.ppsx .

  and as a pdf: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.pdf.

  doug.

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  Doug Mason

  Crazy,

  Yes, I suppose my determination to limit the depth of information likely leaves holes such as you mention.

  Although the Jews had two calendars, one starting with Nisan (March/April) and the secular calendar starting with Tishri (Sept/Oct), nevertheless the months were numbered from Nisan. Hence the seventh month was Tishri (Sept/Oct).

  While Parker and Dubberstein provide the corresponding Julian date for the start of each month, I do not see this to be directly transferrable to any Watchtower dates inasmuch as the Society inserts an unjustifiable 19 years into the neo-Babylonian chronology.

  So the short answer is that the Bible speaks of the number of a month -- the 5th for Jerusalem's destruction, for example, we would equate that to July/August.

  It should be noted also that the WTS is not certain whether it starts its "70 year/2520 year" period from 1 October or 15 October. How they can say this when the Bible writers did not think it important enough to state the month when Jews entered Egypt is rather baffling.

  Doug
  
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  24

  The Watchtower's method to show that it was appointed in 1919 CE

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please note that when you tell me of the corrections i need to make that this is a simplfied, minimalist presentation dealing with the society's appointment in 1919.. it is available as a powerpoint show: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.ppsx .

  and as a pdf: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.pdf.

  doug.

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  Doug Mason

  oldskool,

  Interesting to see your thoughts and experiences. Thank you.

  Since my focus is on the most current interpretation of the derivation of "appointment in 1919", I did not visualise that the Jonadab class would be pertinent, and perhaps could indeed form a distraction. As I noted, this presentation does not delve into every nook and cranny at every step, and I make no apologies for that.
  

  If you wish to see references to the "Jonadabs" I refer you to my Study at:

  http://www.jwstudies.com/The_Watch_Tower_Society_Reveals_Itself.pdf

  The file is searchable.

  I suspect that the name "Jonadab" fell into disuse in the mid to late 1940s when the designation "Jehovah's witnesses" was extended to the "Great Crowd". Under Rutherford, the term "Jehovah's witnesses" was confined to the anointed 144,000.

  I had thought of including a "circular reasoning" graphic. Maybe I should have followed through with the idea. (Why do you believe what the Bible says? -- Because it's in the Bible) (How do you know the Bible is inspired - Because the Bible says so) (How do you know the Society was selected by Jehovah and Jesus in 1919? - Because the Watchtower's interpretation says so -- How do you know this is valid? -- Because it was selected in 1919).

  Please do not worship the Bible as if it is a god.
  

  Doug
  
• 
  24

  The Watchtower's method to show that it was appointed in 1919 CE

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please note that when you tell me of the corrections i need to make that this is a simplfied, minimalist presentation dealing with the society's appointment in 1919.. it is available as a powerpoint show: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.ppsx .

  and as a pdf: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.pdf.

  doug.

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  Doug Mason

  Hi,

  Please note that when you tell me of the corrections I need to make that this is a simplfied, minimalist presentation dealing with the Society's appointment in 1919.

  It is available as a PowerPoint Show: http://www.jwstudies.com/Appointed_in_1919.ppsx
  

  And as a PDF: http://www.jwstudies.com/Appointed_in_1919.pdf

  Doug
  
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  16

  Another "known unknown" for me: 1919

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  having grappled with this question, i decided to turn to the combined expertise at jwn.

  my questions relate to the watchtower's self-determined appointment in 1919:.

  how does the watchtower arrive at the year 1919 for its appointment?

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  Doug Mason

  Thanks to all for your help. I knew I could rely on you.

  That WT article will take some digesting to work out what they are saying, but more importantly, to deduce why they needed to do so.

  I would have thought that if anyone wanted to draw a parallel between a modern "held captive by Babylon" that one would mention that the original lasted 70 years (making their parallel 1918-1988???). But they want to muddy the waters with their invented extended "captivities".

  I find it hypocritical of them to write this of others, as if it did not apply to them as well: "During that extended period of spiritual captivity, the clergy and their political associates, who were desirous of maintaining their power, kept the Word of God from the people under their control. At times, it was a crime to read the Bible in a common language."

  They forget to mention that the decision on which documents would be used to create the Bible was made by the clergy.
  

  Doug
  
• 
  16

  Another "known unknown" for me: 1919

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  having grappled with this question, i decided to turn to the combined expertise at jwn.

  my questions relate to the watchtower's self-determined appointment in 1919:.

  how does the watchtower arrive at the year 1919 for its appointment?

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Doug Mason

  Hi,

  Thank you for pointing me to Paul's excellent analysis. No wonder I could not work out the Scoiety's "reasoning". It is another feeble part of their "foundation".
  

  Doug
• 
  16

  Another "known unknown" for me: 1919

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  having grappled with this question, i decided to turn to the combined expertise at jwn.

  my questions relate to the watchtower's self-determined appointment in 1919:.

  how does the watchtower arrive at the year 1919 for its appointment?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doug Mason

  Hi,

  Having grappled with this question, I decided to turn to the combined expertise at JWN. My questions relate to the Watchtower's self-determined appointment in 1919:

  How does the Watchtower arrive at the year 1919 for its appointment? (Is there a date in 1919?) What Scriptures do they apply? I assume they get to 1918 from Revelation 11 and October 1914. If that is correct, then how do they get to 1919? Is it simply that this is the time when Rutherford was released from prison?

  Thanks,

  Doug
  
• 
  37

  Jehovah Witness vs Jehovah's Witness

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  being brought up as a jehovah's witness means you are so used to the term that you rarely stop to think about it.. one thing i've noticed is that people unfamiliar with the religion will say "jehovah witness" (no 's) instead which i always found a bit grating.. but watching the us election, something struck me.

  people are often referred to as "trump supporters", not "trump's supporters" and so on.

  thinking about other things, people would say they were "united fan's", not "united's fans" and so on.. it seems weird that a group would refer to themselves as though it was someone else talking about them (in the 3rd person, if i have that right).. what do you think?

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  Doug Mason

  The context of Isa 43:12 is talking about the situation of the Judaeans during the neo-Babylonian Captivity (part of deutero-Isaiah).

  In that context YHWH is telling the people that even though they had witnessed that YHWH is God, yet they cotinued to rebel. The context finishes up with YHWH saying therefore he would reject them. (Isa 43:22-28)
  

  They had witnessed YHWH, they had seen his punishments, but they continued in their evil ways. Of course this passage was written by scribes who wanted the people to only worship YHWH. They had been fighting a losing battle until tne time of the Babylonians. This was the opportunity taken by the YHWH-only party and the Judah that came out of captivity was quite unlike the polytheistic Judah that went into captivity. Today, we read the propaganda put out by the YHWH-only party. The rest of the nation was illiterate.
  

  Another problem inherited from Rutherford.

  Of course, he only applied the term to the 144,000 spirit-anointed. The term was not extended to the rest until well after Rutherford's death.

  Doug
  
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  9

  We close this prayer in the mighty god and our everlasting father Jesus Christ amen.

  by pleaseresearch in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hmmm, how well do you think that would go down?.

  you didn't say nothing wrong, isiah states that jesus is such things mentioned.

  would brothers and sisters look at you with a smile, or would there be gasps of shock as you closed a prayer like that..

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  Doug Mason

  Isaiah was speaking about one of his own children, not of some non-human, whether present or in the future.

  Doug